David Frum Twitter Debate with Glen Greenwald on US Surveillance

I’m no great fan of David Frum, but I thought this twitter debate between Glen Greenwald and Frum was instructive:

Glen then retweeted this:

Which I find somewhat ironic – didn’t Snowden reportedly give them this information? How is this more Frum’s fault than Snowden’s? We can’t control China spying on us, and demanding that America stop spying won’t prevent them from doing the same. So what’s their point?

Snowden doesn’t answer this, he just resorts to the “blame bush” defense:

Frum makes a good point about the limitations of the rights accorded to people under the constitution:

And here, the argument is very much like the one about nuclear arms – drawing down on surveillance doesn’t guarantee that anyone else will follow suit. It only guarantees that America will be weaker then it’s competitors:

Frum makes a historical case:

This is purely hypothetical – it would have been in our nation’s interest to spy on those Japanese citizen’s whereabouts and intentions in order to prevent an attack on America.

Can’t argue with this:

Eventually he hits on the main issue:

Glen shut up right quick and could not answer.